tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post8017741370188294610..comments2023-12-20T04:18:41.617-06:00Comments on The Hunting of the Snark: Our Brilliant Financial Analyst Strikes Again!Susan of Texashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-16159943448262558372011-07-06T13:02:52.704-05:002011-07-06T13:02:52.704-05:00Late to the party, as always, but jebus fuckberg c...Late to the party, as always, but jebus fuckberg christ.<br />Myles, moral philosophy does not equal morality. Posner is attempting to appropriate Nietzschean, or really, at this point, modern continental, ideas for purposes which are actually contrary to the underlying philosophy. Amoral, in a philosophic context, does not mean sociopathic. It means being a developed enough being such as to not need an external authority to determine your values for you. Your fail intro to logic attempt at appeal to authority shows how utterly you fail to grasp this fairly simple and basic point. <br />Stick to Ayn Rand, even a banal and flawed thinker like Posner seems above your capabilities.bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06907349163323395529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-32815358410177523792011-07-05T17:16:36.938-05:002011-07-05T17:16:36.938-05:00I can't help but wonder who Myles thinks will ...I can't help but wonder who Myles thinks will be impressed by his arguments. Well-educated people will know he is not able to synthesize information, and badly educated people will be able to see the disconnect between reality and Myles' airy <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_Minders" rel="nofollow">Cloud Minders</a> theorizing. <br /><br />It's just amazing how poor people's economic decisions are supposed to be moral--spend wisely, don't borrow, save your pennies, repay loans, don't steal--yet the rich's economic decisions are supposedly utterly divorced from morality.Susan of Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-36791450874297244162011-07-05T17:13:00.849-05:002011-07-05T17:13:00.849-05:00He does this on Crooked Timber where the credentia...He does this on Crooked Timber where the credentials and professional history are often quite well-known.Mandoshttp://politblogo.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-23804652106989201102011-07-05T17:01:04.690-05:002011-07-05T17:01:04.690-05:00Setting aside every other piece of bullshit myles ...Setting aside every other piece of bullshit myles has spouted on this thread "Economics" are not fundamentlly "amoral." You can not have economics without morality, since you can't have any kind of economic system (production or exchange) without some notion of ownership and ownership derives its existence from a social system and a set of laws to determine how labor and its product will be allocated. Naughty or nice, class based or communist, there is always law, society, and morality at the base of every human economic interaction. Anything else isn't economics any more than ants have economies.<br /><br />Now I think we all know Myles' style well enough to know that he will leap from this perfectly obvious fact (economies are both social and moral, not amoral and not independent of society) to something tangentially related about borneo, or monkeys, or Montesquieu, or anything as long as it enables him to avoid addressing the holes in his argument.<br /><br />Do you ever get tired of being jaw droppingly stupid on the internet, Myles? Because its almost startling how much fail you can pack into your brief posts. Do you not grasp that even in the randomly drawn pool of us, your anonymous or pseudonymous interlocutors, you are facing people who are actually much better educated than you are? People who can't be startled by your absurd name dropping of Posner, or any other of your badly understood heroes?<br /><br />Every time I read one of your posts I am reminded of the character Otto from A Fish Called Wanda.<br /><br />aimaiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-82430294979032559052011-07-05T16:48:52.617-05:002011-07-05T16:48:52.617-05:00Not really. The basic architecture of economics is...<i>Not really. The basic architecture of economics is utterly sound.</i><br /><br />I'm sorry: we now have to define what we mean by "soundness" here. The "basic architecture" of economic is not even really a matter of wide agreement, and in the ideological subgroupings that it has developed, there is a lot of conceptual incoherence papered over with "Gaussian copulas" and whatever. (And I say this as an occasional RL practitioner of Bayesian whatchamacallits.)<br /><br />Even leaving side the underlying conceptual disagreements, there is a matter of much greater import that some kind of internal analytic soundness, and that it in its value for policymaking, which has taken a very public beating in the past few years. <br /><br />The instability imposed upon the (actually historically very recent) American middle class is having effects that were easily predicted through a large-scale moral-historical analysis---I and many others were talking about this on the Internet for years. The "hide-and-go-seek" implicit moral analysis that underpins most mainstream schools of economics, on the other hand, has been found deeply wanting when it really counted.<br /><br />Real, existing economics. Not the True Scotsman economics of your fatuous imaginings.Mandoshttp://politblogo.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-57746546143011079762011-07-05T16:42:27.523-05:002011-07-05T16:42:27.523-05:00"You're a horrible human being Myles - ab...<i>"You're a horrible human being Myles - absolutely horrible."<br /><br />This is not a substantive argument.</i><br /><br />This needs to be preserved for posterity somewhere.Mandoshttp://politblogo.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-31882458503050062362011-07-05T15:47:28.542-05:002011-07-05T15:47:28.542-05:00You're a horrible human being Myles - absolute...<i>You're a horrible human being Myles - absolutely horrible.</i><br /><br />This is not a substantive argument.<br /><br /><i>But even that being as it may, the actual predictive power of economics has not been shown to be, ahem, any good, so claims of it being a "positive science" seem rather premature. And there's ample evidence to show that economics students and even well-known economists treat economics normatively.</i><br /><br />Not really. The basic architecture of economics is utterly sound. It's the misapplication of things like the Gaussian copula that's insane, but that has nothing to do with actual economics, and lots to do with plain greed. The area I am really interested in is free trade, and over decades-long time horizons attempts to game trade have all failed. The Japanese economy is in the stagnant shape it is today precisely because of the misunderstood application of economics in pursuit of gaming trade in a mercantilist fashion, which as neoclassical theory predicted, would end up harming Japan itself. (And South Korea isn't even economically developed enough on a per capita basis (its GDP per capita is half that of Japan) to enter into this discussion.)Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-92008709914636427862011-07-05T14:02:46.208-05:002011-07-05T14:02:46.208-05:00But even that being as it may, the actual predicti...But even that being as it may, the actual predictive power of economics has not been shown to be, ahem, any good, so claims of it being a "positive science" seem rather premature. And there's ample evidence to show that economics students and even well-known economists treat economics normatively.<br /><br />There isn't even any general agreement on how to discriminate between good and bad models, the various factions rigging the criteria to suit their particular ends (and funders). <br /><br />That suggests that moral argument is the foundation of any economic analysis, or at least no worse than economics in predicting outcomes.Mandoshttp://politblogo.typepad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-59364930405498241422011-07-05T13:44:11.684-05:002011-07-05T13:44:11.684-05:00Economics is a positive science, not a normative o...<i>Economics is a positive science, not a normative one, or so I was taught. It's up to politics, not economics, to make the moral decisions, even though they might sometime result in less economically efficient outcomes (the minimum wage, for example). My interest is in economics, not politics.</i><br /><br />This is easily one of the most disgusting paragraphs I've read in a long while.<br /><br />You're a horrible human being Myles - absolutely horrible. And if you don't understand exactly why you're a horrible, awful disgusting piece of work read that last paragraph back to yourself out loud. Stand in front of a mirror and do it and see if you can look yourself in the eyes while you do it.<br /><br />People like you make this world a miserable place. And you do it in such awful mundane ways. So much of the "mundanity of evil" is wrapped up in that paragraph it actually makes me physically pained to read it.<br /><br />Your teachers should be ashamed of themselves if you came out of your classes believing the ugliness that you spew.NonyNonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-52888733481079217632011-07-05T13:05:09.643-05:002011-07-05T13:05:09.643-05:00But most of the people you're arguing with tak...<i>But most of the people you're arguing with take a very strong moral perspective on economic relations.</i><br /><br />But I think it could be argued that this is irrational. Economic relations are fundamentally amoral. If they <i>are</i> moral relations, they wouldn't be economic relations, but personal, ethical, and sympathetic ones. Even relations that have both (and most relations do) can be separated into the two components.<br /><br />Economics is a positive science, not a normative one, or so I was taught. It's up to politics, not economics, to make the moral decisions, even though they might sometime result in less economically efficient outcomes (the minimum wage, for example). My interest is in economics, not politics.Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-87304177399342634602011-07-05T12:13:53.810-05:002011-07-05T12:13:53.810-05:00Guess what, Myles: maybe your interlocutors are no...Guess what, Myles: maybe your interlocutors are not likely to be fans of Posner...<br /><br />And yes, you've said that before and in the context of slavery and emancipation in a Crooked Timber thread, I recall. But most of the people you're arguing with take a very strong moral perspective on economic relations. So perhaps your arguments are largely besides the point.Mandoshttp://politblogo.typepad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-80012761923271123772011-07-05T04:33:36.860-05:002011-07-05T04:33:36.860-05:00Next you are going to tell me that you don't s...Next you are going to tell me that you don't subscribe to either party because you are above politics.<br /><br />Your really are quite pedestrian.Syznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-62541509237108963242011-07-05T03:43:20.861-05:002011-07-05T03:43:20.861-05:00Posner's entire premise is that moral philosop...Posner's entire premise is that moral philosophy is a waste of time, so being not distinguished as a moral philosopher is hardly a detriment by that count.Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-35401815563038941092011-07-05T02:16:45.103-05:002011-07-05T02:16:45.103-05:00And if someone as distinguished as Posner
Actuall...<i>And if someone as distinguished as Posner</i><br /><br />Actually, not distinguished at all as a moral philosopher. You suffer from the shallow hero worship common to conservatives.Syznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-2359537352158564082011-07-05T00:59:10.951-05:002011-07-05T00:59:10.951-05:00Nobody can know anything ever, and see, this impor...Nobody can know anything ever, and see, this important person thinks so too.<br /><br />McMyles.atatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-83074381931893809152011-07-04T21:11:08.835-05:002011-07-04T21:11:08.835-05:00Well my stance on moral philosophy is fairly simil...Well my stance on moral philosophy is fairly similar to that of Richard Posner, which is skepticism.<br /><br />And if someone as distinguished as Posner can hold such an opinion, I don't see how as an option it should be ruled out of bounds for others.Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-3813979587924635602011-07-04T20:06:04.608-05:002011-07-04T20:06:04.608-05:00Aimai says:
Myles, it isn't necessary for me ...Aimai says:<br /><br />Myles, it isn't necessary for me to insult people. It is a pleasure, however, for me to insult *you.* You are an absolute moron and your writing here reveals that you are amoral to boot. You are owed nothing, not even common courtesy. It is a free country, but that's not why I do it. I do it because what you write, and the tedious insistence with which you write it, are an insult to all rational, thoughtful, moral people everywhere.<br /><br />aimaiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-32939795352710421762011-07-04T18:32:29.241-05:002011-07-04T18:32:29.241-05:00There are lots of people in certain (economically ...<i>There are lots of people in certain (economically disadvantaged) parts of Portugal making €500 a month...</i><br /><br />Yes, we saw you move the goalposts yet again. First it was Greece, then France, then Switzerland, then Iceland and now Portugal.<br /><br />You are truly the Carmen Sandiego of sophomoric autodidacts!Syznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-22645885160943811432011-07-04T18:25:12.535-05:002011-07-04T18:25:12.535-05:00Anyone working at OECD is at least a hundredfold s...<i>Anyone working at OECD is at least a hundredfold smarter than me...</i><br /><br />McMegan said exactly the same thing about Krugman, and then proceeded to insist that he knows nothing and she knows everything. It is cute how you slavishly imitate her.<br /><br /><i>The price of agricultural commodities, for example, is entirely nominal.</i><br /><br />People don't eat "agricultural commodities". It is the price of bread that matters, not wheat. Also, there is something called the currency exchange rate which makes nominal comparisons meaningless. Once again, you demonstrate astonishing ignorance of basic economic facts.<br /><br /><i>in the sense that it allows to you lead a largely middle-class lifestyle.</i><br /><br />So now your argument is that because wealthy people <i>can</i> live a middle-class lifestyle, they are actually middle class!<br /><br />Once again, you shamelessly borrow McMegan's techniques: muddy the waters; erase all distinctions; confuse everyone and claim victory.<br /><br /><i>Why is it necessary for you to insult people?</i><br /><br />I think it is pretty clear that you are the one insulting us with your jejune arguments.Syznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-71606564722545578702011-07-04T16:20:27.021-05:002011-07-04T16:20:27.021-05:00Nope. Still wrong. Disposable income of $40k versu...<i>Nope. Still wrong. Disposable income of $40k versus median disposable of merely 19k. That is double the median and therefore upper class.</i><br /><br />Fair enough, but $40k a year in disposable income is 3300 dollars approximately a month. That's a middle class disposable income in <i>any</i> G7 country, in the sense that it allows to you lead a largely middle-class lifestyle.<br /><br />There are lots of people in certain (economically disadvantaged) parts of Portugal making €500 a month. That does not make €1,000 a month an upper middle class income, even in Portugal.Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-44268678050529621332011-07-04T16:12:22.275-05:002011-07-04T16:12:22.275-05:00Only Iceland didn't cave in to them. YAY Icela...<i>Only Iceland didn't cave in to them. YAY Iceland!</i><br /><br />If you don't like int'l bankers, you should seriously dislike Iceland. For most of the last decade, Iceland was basically a hedge fund with 318,452 investors (its population). The Icelanders were pretty much complicit in wiping out the savings of British and Dutch (I think?) depositors.<br /><br /><i>Perhaps one day you can lower yourself to work for the OECD and explain to them "proper" economics.</i><br /><br />Anyone working at OECD is at least a hundredfold smarter than me, but PPP comparisons are just not very useful. The price of agricultural commodities, for example, is entirely nominal.<br /><br /><i>He ends one of his monotonous screeds in mid sentence and doesn't notice.</i><br /><br />Why is it necessary for you to <i>insult</i> people? Free country and everything, but still.Mylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-71023467765469624472011-07-04T15:58:08.132-05:002011-07-04T15:58:08.132-05:00Myles does perk up a thread!
Pity he can't be...Myles <i>does</i> perk up a thread!<br /><br />Pity he can't be enabled to see that the international banks/financiers are deliberately destroying many countries economies, and then robbing- looting the countries. <br /><br />Only Iceland didn't cave in to them. YAY Iceland!Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03176801494652946278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-89782882955139564772011-07-04T15:28:55.244-05:002011-07-04T15:28:55.244-05:00Jeezus, even Myles can't be arsed to listen to...Jeezus, even Myles can't be arsed to listen to himself. He ends one of his monotonous screeds in mid sentence and doesn't notice.<br /><br />I think Myles himself is some kind of meta or recursive demonstration of the harm that Megan does. Not only can she not think, or write, or reason but those who read her too sympathetically or uncritically must also have those faculties destroyed. She must be come kind of viral brain destroying morality sucker--sorry, just spent the afternoon watching old Buffies with my daughter and the notion of personifying moral evil with demon types strikes me as very reasonable.<br /><br />aimaiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-8163806508923781982011-07-04T14:53:19.970-05:002011-07-04T14:53:19.970-05:00Which means they have a disposable of $40k at best...<i>Which means they have a disposable of $40k at best, and that's middle class.</i><br /><br />Nope. Still wrong. Disposable income of $40k versus median disposable of merely 19k. That is double the median and therefore upper class.<br /><br />Oh, and you made me LOL at your "enlightened" explanation of why you reject all the relevant figures. Perhaps one day you can lower yourself to work for the OECD and explain to them "proper" economics.<br /><br />You truly are McMegan's child...Syznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-52445988384348547562011-07-04T13:48:34.017-05:002011-07-04T13:48:34.017-05:00By the way, I think Megan is wrong on the prospect...By the way, I think Megan is wrong on the prospect of Greek default. In the short and medium term, it would be good for Greece. But in the long-run, it would mean a structural divergence from the high-productivity, high-revenue northern European economies resulting in Greece joining the ranks of Argentina and so on in the ranks of permanently middle-income countries.<br /><br />(The old quip about Brazil being perpetually the country of the future.)Mylesnoreply@blogger.com