tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post1162792500511072301..comments2023-12-20T04:18:41.617-06:00Comments on The Hunting of the Snark: Obedience and PoliticsSusan of Texashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-86684590394597002582010-12-14T10:43:31.005-06:002010-12-14T10:43:31.005-06:00We will not keep doing the same thing over and ove...We will not keep doing the same thing over and over. Sooner or later the consequences of our actions will be too great to ignore and we will be forced to change. Or we can force ourselves to ask why are constantly being surprised and duped. <br /><br />When we elect someone we can evaluate them based on what they say, who they support, what they do, what they wrote. We compare that against what we want and what we know to be right. If we depend on others to tell us whom to support we end up letting them tell us what is right, because leaders seldom want the same things that followers want and they lie to get compliance from the masses. We don't choose the candidates, we are told which candidate to vote for. If we don't like him we are told to shut up.<br /><br />And if we don't shut up, we are punished and shoved out of the tribe. In time we will form a new tribe, but that's going to take a lot of misery and upheaval.<br /><br />We could go straight to the new tribe with a minimum of upheaval but people don't believe that the economy will get bad enough to make that necessary.Susan of Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-50760876537309176172010-12-13T17:44:18.318-06:002010-12-13T17:44:18.318-06:00We will keep doing the same thing over and over. W...We will keep doing the same thing over and over. When we elect someone we can only evaluate them against the continuum of other possibilities--or refuse to vote. Refusing to vote is actually a strategy that is often offered to us--by the ruling class. Its passive resistance without any hope of meaningful success.<br /><br />I've been reading Montaigne, following on reading the new biography of Montaigne called something like Montaigne: A Life/One Question and 26 attempts at an answer. Montaigne's best friend wrote a long and very important essay about removing the consent of the governned from authorities. This essay reappeared in various forms right up until the present day. Originally it was considered extremely revolutionary because of the central argument that consent of the governed could be withdrawn by passive resistance/refusal to co-operate. Later it was taken up by various factions in their pursuit of power vis a vis the throne.<br /><br />Apparently it recurs in modern day evangelical writings. The thing to realize about it, however, is that when we move from a condition of absolute servitude to an absolute monarch to a democracy we can "remove consent" and still vote--but refusing to vote doesn't so much remove consent as disable us and take from us one of our most important weapons.<br /><br />I don't feel like I"m being "obedient" or "subservient" to authority when I choose to support the good things that Obama and the Dems can do, hold their feet to the fire to get them to behave better, and work to make sure that there are fewer Republicans and corporatist Dems in each election cycle. I think that's exactly what progressives have always had to do. Obama's not the worst example of a political figure I can *remember* let alone imagine.<br /><br />aimaiAimaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03763135029063170794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-17306309423303950212010-12-13T09:25:15.885-06:002010-12-13T09:25:15.885-06:00I agree with almost everything you say---but Obama...I agree with almost everything you say---but Obama was once a local politician. He managed to convince a lot of very smart people that he would be a progressive leader. How do we know that we won't keep doing the same thing over and over?Susan of Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-34825837619103606532010-12-13T08:55:23.673-06:002010-12-13T08:55:23.673-06:00Well, I'm not sure how to respond to this. Bec...Well, I'm not sure how to respond to this. Because Obama is not, in fact, a dictator who can rule by fiat. Therefore when we talk about what Obama has done, as opposed to what he said he wants to do, we have to take into account that there isn't a straight line between what he wants done and what gets done.<br /><br />Take, for example, closing gitmo. He not only said he wanted to do it he tried to do it but was blocked by Congressional Democrats. Or take DADT--he had a strategy which was pretty good and which advanced the ball very far down court legislatively. He places a premium on doing things in such a way that they can't easily be reppealed. He's said so, and he's orchestrated the situation so that if he could get it through congress DADT repeal would be on firm ground. Now he's being blocked by the Senate. You can say that he should have seen this coming but I'm not sure that I agree that the right "solution" would to have been just to issue an executive order. <br /><br />I'm not defending Obama while believing he lied to me. I'm not proposing to keep supporting Obama because I think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm defending (some) of Obama's policies as sincere but misguided tactically. I'm defending the current sitting Democratic President because all other options are, at this point, null and void or subtract from my ability as an activist to get things done.<br /><br />I don't think people are supposed to shut up if they are dissatisfied and I don' think people should take it for granted that any political figure is who they say they are when they campaign for election. But in the case of Obama I don't really care if he represented himself as more of a fighter, or more of a progressive, than he really is. Its not relevant. He didn't take the election away from a more progressive candidate. There wasn't an ounce worth of difference between him and Clinton and there is no chance in hell that Edwards wasn't going to fuck up and betray us.<br /><br />I'm way more left than most people in this country and I don't have a problem playing the political game as its currently constituted and saving my serious leftism for local politics where it can make some difference.<br /><br />At the top of the American political tree we have an imperial presidency, a corrupt Senate and Congress, and a powerful plutocracy. Obama is the best we can do under the circumstances and still better than all other alternatives. That's not authoritarian thinking that's just practicality.<br /><br />aimaiAimaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03763135029063170794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-22128240370650512102010-12-12T15:59:23.339-06:002010-12-12T15:59:23.339-06:00We "hire" him, we pay him, yet when he l...We "hire" him, we pay him, yet when he lies to us and does not do what we need him to do, we're supposed to shut up? Why?Susan of Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00076915322771385454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-43205785483702952562010-12-12T14:18:34.561-06:002010-12-12T14:18:34.561-06:00We need to keep in mind at all times that Obama an...We need to keep in mind at all times that Obama and all the others in the House & Senate are our elected <i>Representatives</i>, not our Rulers. <br /><br />We chose someone we thought would be a Leader, but isn't. I'm darned if I can explain <i>what</i> Obama is. Kind of a Blind Men & Elephant scenario.Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03176801494652946278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2222630007427380394.post-66228391701827418982010-12-12T14:05:03.315-06:002010-12-12T14:05:03.315-06:00I agree with this. God, I'm pathetic.I agree with this. God, I'm pathetic.xenideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02527515587503087809noreply@blogger.com